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Injustice in Perugia is an independent grassroots organization working to correct the injustice committed against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.
Main Forum to discuss the causes, cases and solutions to the problem of wrongful convictions.
LondonSupporter
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:52 pm
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:31 pm Posts: 244 Location: London, UK
I have begun to follow the case of Shrien Dewani. He has not been tried (yet) and is currently home in the UK fighting extradition. I am not yet sure that he is innocent bit I suspect that he is. The case has many of the characteristics of the Kercher case - an overbearing and corrupt police chief, pressure to solve the murder because the victim was a foreigner and the publicity was affecting tourism, lack of credible motive (though the SA authorities have proposed an incredible one), previously unblemished character of the accused, naive and trusting character of the accused "intelligent but not streetwise". I think there is quite a lot to investigate here. This is an interesting article (OK, I know it's in the Daily Mail):
Is it worthy of investigation even though the trial hasn't happened?
wald1900
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:06 am
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:19 pm Posts: 339
LondonSupporter wrote:
I have begun to follow the case of Shrien Dewani. He has not been tried (yet) and is currently home in the UK fighting extradition. I am not yet sure that he is innocent bit I suspect that he is. The case has many of the characteristics of the Kercher case - an overbearing and corrupt police chief, pressure to solve the murder because the victim was a foreigner and the publicity was affecting tourism, lack of credible motive (though the SA authorities have proposed an incredible one), previously unblemished character of the accused, naive and trusting character of the accused "intelligent but not streetwise". I think there is quite a lot to investigate here. This is an interesting article (OK, I know it's in the Daily Mail):
Is it worthy of investigation even though the trial hasn't happened?
I agree completely. I came across this a few days ago and his story has so many of the hallmarks of an "injustice". Does anyone have any deeper details?
I agree with taking this case up until and unless it becomes incontrovertible that Dewani is guilty. The case against him sounds suspicious; there are alternative explanations for all the "evidence" against him and he may not get a fair trial in Cape Town. What a nightmare if he's innocent!
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:34 am
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 768 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
Yes, the case does sound very suspicious. Actually it doesn't sound to me like the driver was guilty either, I wonder what the evidence against him was. But I would want to see the other side of the story first, from someone who thinks there is a case to answer.
Edit: I just read the wiki ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Anni_Dewani ). The case still sounds suspicious to me. The story is highly implausible, and it's very plausible that the police have acted improperly.
LondonSupporter
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:17 am
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:31 pm Posts: 244 Location: London, UK
Thanks for the comments. One scenario is this:
The driver was hired at the airport. He may have sussed that the couple have money and valuables. He may have agreed to drive them around, because he could take them to a place where they could be attacked by a pre arranged gang - he tipped them off. This happened but the gang decided that they wanted to rape Anni as well so they threw the guys out of the car. In this scenario, the driver thought he was setting up a robbery (that he could later claim was nothing to do with him) but the whole thing got out of hand and when Anni resisted the attack (or made too much noise and that they were disturbed), so they shot her. It is also possible as you say geebee2, that the driver is innocent as well.
Shrien Dewani's family have hired Max Clifford to help them with publicity but I have not found any 'innocence' websites that could help his cause. The campaign for Amanda and Raffaele took years to get to where it ended up and it is a model in how to campaign for innocence on the internet. Dewani's people should be doing something similar. This forum could be a start. But first we need to see a detailed rebuttal of the prosecution case (e.g. what is with the text messages in the taxi?). At present I am 60% inclined towards innocence but I need more.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:04 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1256
Hmmm - I'm wavering back and forth on this one. Alot of things are strange on both sides. I'll need more information myself. What was their background like back home? Why hide the payment of the taxi driver with text messages? Even if true that the driver was picking up a surprise gift, Anni would have still known the driver had to be paid for the driving services. Could have still discussed the money in front of her and just don't mention the extra money for the gift......I dunno.
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:31 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 768 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
I don't see any solid evidence at all here. It's all witnesses confessing in police custody or plea-bargaining.
( Let's see a tape recording of the interrogation - joke ! )
To prove such an unlikely case, I would want to see real evidence of a substantial amount of money changing hands ( not the money to pay a taxi fare ).
That seems to be signally absent.
There is lots of bluster on the part of the South African's, especially the weasel word "clear", which always means something is totally unclear and there is no proper evidence.
But I have only spent 10 minutes on it, so of course I'm quite open-minded.
wald1900
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:12 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:19 pm Posts: 339
There were some disturbing questions raised in the wiki-article.....however, the Kercher murder has taught me to view such topical wiki-posts with a high degree of skepticism.
Again taking from the Kercher murder experience, it's not up to Dewani to prove his innocence, but for the prosecution to prove his guilt.
It seems, from what little I've read, that the main things stacked against him are the driver's confession and the financial transactions with the driver before and after the crime. I don't know how anyone else here feels, but I harbor a native suspicion about the confession. The cash transactions are troubling, and I'd like to understand better what Dewani has to say about them. I'd also like to know what is customary payment (both amount and method) in the region for such services (tour guide, driver).
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:35 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 768 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
I also read this Daily Mail article, that seems fairly balanced
The prosecution case doesn't add up for me, nothing solid there. Maybe the driver was guilty of arranging a robbery ( if those phone records are real ), but the involvement of Shrien still seems highly implausible to me, on the evidence I have heard so far.
Where is the "devastating dossier of evidence" ?
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:31 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 768 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
Another thought on the Dewani case ( these things often pop up in my mind hours after I originally looked at something ) - if Dewani was really paying off the driver for carrying out the murder, would he really have done it in such a public place, in full view of CCTV cameras? Hardly. This is evidence of innocence, not guilt.
I'm fairly convinced the prosecution case and evidence (that I have seen) doesn't even add up to reasonable suspicion, let alone evidence that could support a conviction. Just my view, could well be completely wrong.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:17 am
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1289
LondonSupporter,
Very interesting and intriguing case. I know warning bells go off for anyone following the Amanda Knox case that the confession may have been forced out of him.
anglolawyer
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:52 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 1687 Location: Surrey, England
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
_________________ Barbie Latza Nadeau - I read her book so you don't have to!
sflicker
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:08 pm
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:48 pm Posts: 715
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I think this case has been mentioned on TJMK and of course saying AK and RK are guilty. One thing about the Kercher case is so much was leaked to the media that it gave both sides so much stuff to argue about even before the trial. I'm wondering if other cases have as much material so that the case can be analyzed and determine guilt or innocence.
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:18 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 768 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I agree. I did look at the forensic evidence, but couldn't decide if it was shaky. Defence claims of contamination didn't sound particularly plausible, but I didn't have sufficient detail. There is a PMF poster who claims some link to the investigation team, which only inflames my doubts. But it's very hard to summon any kind of sympathy for the defendants. There must be more deserving causes!
anglolawyer
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:20 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 1687 Location: Surrey, England
sflicker wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I think this case has been mentioned on TJMK and of course saying AK and RK are guilty. One thing about the Kercher case is so much was leaked to the media that it gave both sides so much stuff to argue about even before the trial. I'm wondering if other cases have as much material so that the case can be analyzed and determine guilt or innocence.
The same question has occurred to me. I suppose if we told Dobson and Norris's solicitors that a powerful, international justice organisation (er, that's us) wanted to review their case, why wouldn't they hand over the files? What's to lose?
_________________ Barbie Latza Nadeau - I read her book so you don't have to!
anglolawyer
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 1687 Location: Surrey, England
geebee2 wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I agree. I did look at the forensic evidence, but couldn't decide if it was shaky. Defence claims of contamination didn't sound particularly plausible, but I didn't have sufficient detail. There is a PMF poster who claims some link to the investigation team, which only inflames my doubts. But it's very hard to summon any kind of sympathy for the defendants. There must be more deserving causes!
Yes, but that's the thing isn't it? Justice is blind. Even if these guys are guilty, they should go free if the evidence isn't there. Mind you, it would be a PR disaster to take it on. I think there is something distinctly fishy about the case and that's all I'm saying. I have been turned into a forensic science sceptic by Dr Waterbury.
_________________ Barbie Latza Nadeau - I read her book so you don't have to!
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:05 am
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 768 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
anglolawyer wrote:
geebee2 wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I agree. I did look at the forensic evidence, but couldn't decide if it was shaky. Defence claims of contamination didn't sound particularly plausible, but I didn't have sufficient detail. There is a PMF poster who claims some link to the investigation team, which only inflames my doubts. But it's very hard to summon any kind of sympathy for the defendants. There must be more deserving causes!
Yes, but that's the thing isn't it? Justice is blind. Even if these guys are guilty, they should go free if the evidence isn't there. Mind you, it would be a PR disaster to take it on. I think there is something distinctly fishy about the case and that's all I'm saying. I have been turned into a forensic science sceptic by Dr Waterbury.
Looking again, it doesn't really have the typical characteristics of a miscarriage. I find the circumstantial evidence to be reasonably strong, the prosecution case to be entirely plausible, and the defence arguments weak.
I would still like to have more detail - what was the quantity of DNA detected from the blood speck? Were proper control tests done and documented? And I don't understand the fibre evidence ( my ignorance... I just have never researched this ).
But on balance, I don't find the conviction doubtful, without some solid evidence that this is the case.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:19 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1256
Does anyone have enough travel experience to make up a list - large or small - of what they would consider to be more prominent travel agencies? If so, please PM me. I am trying to compile a list for the January 15 letter writing campaign for Jason Puracal and I personally have hardly any travel experience. Thanks for any help.
lane99
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:10 pm
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:25 pm Posts: 66
Dewani is probably gay (which, in this instance, provides a motive) and probably guilty. And, as such, shares much more in common with Michael Peterson than with Amanda Knox.
You want to find a worthy cause to champion, take a look at the framing of Billy Wayne Cope. His is a case that truly shares a lot in common with the injustice perpetrated against Knox.
Unfortunately, though, the Cope case is not as sexy as Knox's was. So I'm not expecting Cope's railroading to ever garner much attention. Which is a real pity. Since the poor man is almost certainly innocent of the absolutely heinous crime he was convicted of.
gompertz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:45 am
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:58 pm Posts: 302
lane99 wrote:
Dewani is probably gay (which, in this instance, provides a motive) and probably guilty. And, as such, shares much more in common with Michael Peterson than with Amanda Knox.
You want to find a worthy cause to champion, take a look at the framing of Billy Wayne Cope. His is a case that truly shares a lot in common with the injustice perpetrated against Knox.
Unfortunately, though, the Cope case is not as sexy as Knox's was. So I'm not expecting Cope's railroading to ever garner much attention. Which is a real pity. Since the poor man is almost certainly innocent of the absolutely heinous crime he was convicted of.
Thanks for the suggestion. The Cope case certainly looks like a serious injustice. While Cope's case might not be as "sexy" as the Knox case, that is no reason to ignore it. http://prosecutorialrant.blogspot.com/2 ... homer.html
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:44 am
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 768 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
A little nugget from TJMK concerning the Chief prosecutor who will decide whether to appeal, Dr Giovanni Galati.
Quote:
His office has been investigating corruption in construction related to the Winter Olympics in 2006 and the severe earthquake in 2010.
Is this the ridiculous case against the scientists who failed to predict the earthquake, and who were then put on trial? If so, that gives me little confidence! He has also apparently made unofficial pronouncements about the case before studying Hellmann's motivations document, which strikes me as highly irregular, suggesting prejudice.
I think Raffaele should get on a plane!
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:37 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1256
geebee2 wrote:
A little nugget from TJMK concerning the Chief prosecutor who will decide whether to appeal, Dr Giovanni Galati.
Quote:
His office has been investigating corruption in construction related to the Winter Olympics in 2006 and the severe earthquake in 2010.
Is this the ridiculous case against the scientists who failed to predict the earthquake, and who were then put on trial? If so, that gives me little confidence! He has also apparently made unofficial pronouncements about the case before studying Hellmann's motivations document, which strikes me as highly irregular, suggesting prejudice.
I think Raffaele should get on a plane!
I agree - Raff said he was going to NY to work on his book. I say he should go NOW.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:04 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1289
West of Memphis, Official Trailer
This looks fantastic. Really looking forward to it.
Happy new year everyone - I thought I'd share that I've become attracted by another European case - the disappearance of 22 year old French foreign exchange student Ophelie Bretnacher in Budapest in Dec 2008.
In brief, she was walking home from a bar very late 2-3AM during a night in December and was seen on various surveillance videos until she apparently deviated from the logical path - with the only trace of her being her purse and mobile phone were then found on the beautiful chain bridge. 3 months later her body was found in a downstream branch off the Danube, but upstream from the direction of the current arousing suspicion that she never actually fell/jumped from the bridge.
Apparently the Hungarian police are accused by many onlookers of not doing a proper thorough investigation, not sharing all information, and not properly cooperating with the French investigation of the case. Many avenues of investigation are probably long lost - but they are still asking for further witness statements, diatomical analysis (from the Danube as evidence of drowning), and further analysis of surveillance video.
This one does not involve a wrongful conviction, so it doesn't necessarily fit the mission of this site, but involves many elements common to the Amanda Knox case. In this case, it is still unclear if anyone should be accused of wrong-doing and face justice. Seems to me to be an injustice for the victim that there are such blockades to a open and fair investigation.
There seems to have been some diplomatic talk between France and Hungary on the subject - but it didn't seem to go very far. Many are calling this an example of a failure of the European system that needs to be addressed. I suspect unless a new witness comes forward, they find a connection to another crime, or they make political progress for further sharing of information, the investigation is probably at a dead end.
I've been living in Budapest now for a few months and also speak French - so this case has a very relevant intersection of interests for me. The information available on the net is quite scattered and poorly organized - but there is definitely a community of those following the case, mostly from France. I am going to try to make sense of it all and see where I get.
In the mean-time, be assured - I am still here following the latest on the translation efforts for the Hellmann report, waiting for news about the supreme court appeal for the Amanda and Raffaele as well as all their related cases - and the new Injustices Anywhere cases.
_________________ aka. "ForTruth"
lane99
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:41 pm
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:25 pm Posts: 66
gompertz wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. The Cope case certainly looks like a serious injustice. While Cope's case might not be as "sexy" as the Knox case, that is no reason to ignore it. http://prosecutorialrant.blogspot.com/2 ... homer.html
Program airing today, Jan/21
Today on TLC there is a program (it's actually a repeat of a Dateline episode, I think) on the Cope case. Airing at 6pm in my region (which is Pacific time).
The show is repeated a few hours later, as well.
gompertz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:05 am
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:58 pm Posts: 302
lane99 wrote:
gompertz wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. The Cope case certainly looks like a serious injustice. While Cope's case might not be as "sexy" as the Knox case, that is no reason to ignore it. http://prosecutorialrant.blogspot.com/2 ... homer.html
Program airing today, Jan/21
Today on TLC there is a program (it's actually a repeat of a Dateline episode, I think) on the Cope case. Airing at 6pm in my region (which is Pacific time).
The show is repeated a few hours later, as well.
I managed to catch the midnight showing of the Dateline episode. Of all the cases we have been invited to examine, this one, IMO, most closely meets the standards of a clear miscarriage of justice. I am not saying that the other cases mentioned are not worthy of attention, only that I still have some vague doubts in some of those cases. The false confessions that came after Cope repeatedly denied murdering his daughter, the police lying about the evidence, including the results of the lie detector test requested by Cope, the police inducing Cope's wife to trick Cope into another confession, are only the tip of the iceberg. Much here resembles the Knox case, including the finding of the DNA of the real murderer, which did not lead to Cope being exonerated despite lack of DNA of anyone but the murderer. The police simply changed their theory to include the murderer, claiming Cope and the murderer had conspired to rape and kill Cope's daughter. Yet Cope had never met the murderer, James Sanders, and did not mention him in his "confessions." Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it? The involvement of Dr. Saul Kassin must also be mentioned. Kassin testified for the defense at the trial, yet the judge disallowed Kassin's testimony. Also a letter by Sanders, denying any involvement on the part of Cope, was disallowed by the judge. That's all I can say for now, except to point out that this is a case where our input could make a real difference. After I have gotten some sleep, I intend to join the Facebook cause for Billy Wayne Cope.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:25 am
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1289
davelebon wrote:
Happy new year everyone - I thought I'd share that I've become attracted by another European case - the disappearance of 22 year old French foreign exchange student Ophelie Bretnacher in Budapest in Dec 2008.
In brief, she was walking home from a bar very late 2-3AM during a night in December and was seen on various surveillance videos until she apparently deviated from the logical path - with the only trace of her being her purse and mobile phone were then found on the beautiful chain bridge. 3 months later her body was found in a downstream branch off the Danube, but upstream from the direction of the current arousing suspicion that she never actually fell/jumped from the bridge.
In the mean-time, be assured - I am still here following the latest on the translation efforts for the Hellmann report, waiting for news about the supreme court appeal for the Amanda and Raffaele as well as all their related cases - and the new Injustices Anywhere cases.
Hi Davelebon,
Happy New Year to you also! Nice to see you still posting. It does indeed look like an interesting case to follow. Keep us updated.
Sarah
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:34 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1289
Kathryn Schulz: Being Wrong
A great lesson for all of us. We are all wrong at times and the best way to correct our views is to be challenged by others. To welcome it in fact. I know watching the guilter echo chambers I would rather find out I'm wrong and change than not.
The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has received a 6 page letter from Vanier, which "documents a string of alleged abuses she claims she has endured since Nov. 10 while being detained in Mexico City's Centro de Arraigos detention centre."
She has already been held for more than 80 days under Mexico’s "preventive arrest" laws while authorities investigate what they have called an international plot to forge travel documents and smuggle surviving members of the Gadhafi family to a home on Mexico’s Pacific coast.
_________________ Bill W. Williams Listing Knox's lies are the least of PGP's concerns when it comes to sustaining an untenable belief in her guilt
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:33 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 768 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
We need people who disagree with us... it's so true.
That's why the colpevisti sites are so pernicious, by shutting out disagreement, there is no error correction mechanism.
I think there was someone yesterday at PMF.net who was openly proud that they never tried reading the other side of the argument, to prove their "loyalty" to the "cause". That's so mis-guided. To be fair to Michael, letting the innocenti post on Tuesdays shows a glimmer of hope.
Fomalhaut
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:34 am
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 2:19 am Posts: 16
davelebon wrote:
Happy new year everyone - I thought I'd share that I've become attracted by another European case - the disappearance of 22 year old French foreign exchange student Ophelie Bretnacher in Budapest in Dec 2008.
In brief, she was walking home from a bar very late 2-3AM during a night in December and was seen on various surveillance videos until she apparently deviated from the logical path - with the only trace of her being her purse and mobile phone were then found on the beautiful chain bridge. 3 months later her body was found in a downstream branch off the Danube, but upstream from the direction of the current arousing suspicion that she never actually fell/jumped from the bridge.
Apparently the Hungarian police are accused by many onlookers of not doing a proper thorough investigation, not sharing all information, and not properly cooperating with the French investigation of the case. Many avenues of investigation are probably long lost - but they are still asking for further witness statements, diatomical analysis (from the Danube as evidence of drowning), and further analysis of surveillance video.
This one does not involve a wrongful conviction, so it doesn't necessarily fit the mission of this site, but involves many elements common to the Amanda Knox case. In this case, it is still unclear if anyone should be accused of wrong-doing and face justice. Seems to me to be an injustice for the victim that there are such blockades to a open and fair investigation.
There seems to have been some diplomatic talk between France and Hungary on the subject - but it didn't seem to go very far. Many are calling this an example of a failure of the European system that needs to be addressed. I suspect unless a new witness comes forward, they find a connection to another crime, or they make political progress for further sharing of information, the investigation is probably at a dead end.
I've been living in Budapest now for a few months and also speak French - so this case has a very relevant intersection of interests for me. The information available on the net is quite scattered and poorly organized - but there is definitely a community of those following the case, mostly from France. I am going to try to make sense of it all and see where I get.
In the mean-time, be assured - I am still here following the latest on the translation efforts for the Hellmann report, waiting for news about the supreme court appeal for the Amanda and Raffaele as well as all their related cases - and the new Injustices Anywhere cases.
Hello, I live in Budapest too and have followed the case from the beginning. In fact, the diatomical analysis has been already done, it was proven that there was water from the Danube in her lungs. A thing arousing suspicion is that there was almost no alcohol in her blood, while many witnesses concord on the fact that she drank several beers that night - had she jumped from the Chain Bridge (or any bridge nearby) right after being caught on the street surveillance cameras, the level would have been much higher. It sure is an interesting case.
Bettina
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:51 pm
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 8:04 pm Posts: 49
What about the charges against our friend Frank Sfarzo? [size=150]Some discussion may prove beneficial at this time. I know very little...except our support of him seems crucial at this point.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:05 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1256
Bettina wrote:
What about the charges against our friend Frank Sfarzo? [size=150]Some discussion may prove beneficial at this time. I know very little...except our support of him seems crucial at this point.
I agree. I think we definitely have to show as public a support of him as possible. We've all rallied behind Amanda and Raffaelle publicly but Frank can easily be forgotten and if he's not in the spotlight, the Perugian authorities will be free to do as they like to him.
anglolawyer
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:24 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 1687 Location: Surrey, England
Jstanz wrote:
Bettina wrote:
What about the charges against our friend Frank Sfarzo? [size=150]Some discussion may prove beneficial at this time. I know very little...except our support of him seems crucial at this point.
I agree. I think we definitely have to show as public a support of him as possible. We've all rallied behind Amanda and Raffaelle publicly but Frank can easily be forgotten and if he's not in the spotlight, the Perugian authorities will be free to do as they like to him.
Can someone please say something about these charges Frank faces? I am sorry I am not up to speed but I am also concerned that he should not be facing the Perugian mafia alone.
_________________ Barbie Latza Nadeau - I read her book so you don't have to!
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:28 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1256
anglolawyer wrote:
Jstanz wrote:
Bettina wrote:
What about the charges against our friend Frank Sfarzo? [size=150]Some discussion may prove beneficial at this time. I know very little...except our support of him seems crucial at this point.
I agree. I think we definitely have to show as public a support of him as possible. We've all rallied behind Amanda and Raffaelle publicly but Frank can easily be forgotten and if he's not in the spotlight, the Perugian authorities will be free to do as they like to him.
Can someone please say something about these charges Frank faces? I am sorry I am not up to speed but I am also concerned that he should not be facing the Perugian mafia alone.
I'm not sure what the charges are exactly and don't want to give misinformation. Hopefully, someone else will respond.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:28 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1256
I see the Injustice Anywhere site is up and running! How exciting! I'm looking forward to getting to know the site.
I became interested in a case a while back after reading a brief discription of the case on Candace Dempsey's twitter.
This is the case of high school friends Ryan ferguson and Chuck Erickson who are currently serving time for the murder of sports editor Kent Heitholt who was found dead in the parking lot of The Columbia Daily Tribune on Halloween night 2001. He had been beaten with a blunt object and subsequently strangled with his own belt.
For two years Heitholt's murder was unsolved. Some time later Chuck Erickson became of interest to the police when it became known he was talking to friends about being involved in the crime. Chuck Erickson pleaded guilty to second-degree murder, first-degree robbery and armed criminal action and was sentenced to 25 years. Ryan Ferguson was convicted of second-degree murder and first-degree robbery and was sentenced to 40 years after his friend Erickson named him as an accomplice and testified that it was Ferguson who strangled the victim. Ericksons sentence was reduced from 40 years to 25 years in exchange for this information.
Since their imprisonment Chuck Erickson has recanted and now says that he acted alone in the killing of Kent Heitholt.
Some important factors:
* Chuck Erickson maintains guilt but he also provides a very distorted account of events during his interrogation (Seen in the documentary linked above). He seems unsure as to what was used to stranlge Heitholt and seems surprised when informed he was strangled with his own belt.
* Ryan Ferguson has always maintained innocence and was unwavered during his interrogation. He is visibly upset and physically exhausted in these recordings but sticks to his account.
* This was a very messy crime scene. There is no physical evidence linking either of them to the crime scene. There were bloody footprints at the scene and a strand of hair found in the victims hand. Neither could be matched to Chuck Erickson OR Ryan Ferguson.
* The weapon used to inflict the blows to the victims head was never found.
* Witness Dallas Mallory a friend of Chuck Erickson's whom Chuck says he saw and spoke with right after the murder gave a statement confirming this. By the time the case went to trial Mallory denied this encounter and claims he was coerced by authorities, and the said statement was given under duress.
*Witness Jerry Trump who was the janitor at the Columbia Daily Tribune claims to have got a glimpse at two individuals by the victims car where he was murdered. During the investigation he maintained he could not provide a detailed discription of the pair, however during the trial when asked could he identify the individual or individuals he pointed to both Chuck Erickson and Ryan Ferguson. Trump was actually in prison at the time the pair were arrested and claims that seeing a newspaper article with their pictures 'jolted his memory'. Trump has since admitted that he lied during the trial and has signed a waiver to this effect which will be used by the defence in Ryan Fergusons Habeas Hearing this coming April 2012.
* Michael Boyd, a co-worked of Kent Heidholt has become the focus of Fergusons defence team for the 2012 habeas hearing. He is the last person on record to see the victim alive. They are claiming he may be the actual killer. The petition they filed accused Boyd of being a potential suspect but said he was never thoroughly investigated. “Revenge” and a “deep animosity” were cited as motives for Boyd, who saw Heitholt shortly before he was killed in the Tribune’s parking lot in 2001. The petition alleges Boyd had complained to members of the janitorial crew that Heitholt disrespected him in the workplace. Janitor Shawna Ornt said in an affidavit that Boyd seemed obsessed with Heitholt and said his boss would repeatedly criticize his writing and work. This was refuted by fellow sports editor Joe Walljasper who claims no animosity existed between them.
* Ferguson’s attorney, Kathleen Zellner of Chicago, said she believes Heitholt’s DNA and a murder weapon could be in Boyd’s 1991 blue Oldsmobile, which was never searched by police. Efforts to locate the vehicle stumped investigators. Boyd said he exchanged the vehicle for a red van through Enterprise Leasing in St. Louis. His brother, who worked for the business, told Boyd he could get him a good deal, and so the transaction was made. The defense alleges the vehicle identification number has been changed on paperwork.
* There are inconsistencies in Boyd's accounts of the night of the murder as he left to go home around the time that the victim was also left work to go home. This youtube clip which cites numerous interviews given by Boyd to police claims he has changed his version of leaving work early that night 5 times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHONDPS6H_o
Well folks, to say this is a complex case is an understatement. There are allot of factors involved here. I think it is blatantly obvious that Ryan Ferguson has been falsely imprisoned and I really hope that he is acquitted. I would have allot of doubts about Chuck Erickson's involvement too. Despite the fact that he has maintained his guilt and gone to great length to do so there is allot that does not add up. His accounts are very distorted and he seemed genuinely surprised when presented with certain facts during his interrogation. He can't account for the weapon he claimed to have used and I found it strange that the prosecutor who was driving him to the crime scene was telling him where it took place. Chuck looks oblivious. His constant reference to it 'being like a dream' also shed some doubt. He comes across a very troubled young man who is not well balanced.
The defence's focus on Heitholt's co-worker Michael Boyd is interesting. Could he be a genuine suspect or are the defence looking to anything they can to profess Ryan's innocence? Surely Chucks recanting would be enough to ensure that. Hope you guys find this as interesting as I have.
Cheers,
Graeme
Bettina
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:01 pm
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 8:04 pm Posts: 49
Frank is waiting trial and would prefer we did not discuss his case right now. There will be big news when the time is right.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:07 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1256
Bettina wrote:
Frank is waiting trial and would prefer we did not discuss his case right now. There will be big news when the time is right.
Thanks Bettina!
MustBeQuantum
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:15 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:57 pm Posts: 512
Ran into a case a year or so ago in California regarding a teenager who was convicted of murder.
The victim, Pam Vitale, was the wife of an attorney, Daniel Horowitz. The husband, Daniel Horowitz, started some kind of foundation against (!) teenage defendants. Totally odd. Ran into his Horowitz's Wikipedia Campaign PR when I was reading all the MOMK garbage.
Daniel Horowitz has been a rather shady TV lawyer for a while. Scott Dyleski was accused and convicted of the murder of Pamela Vitale. How much of that was PR, I do not know, but that is a case worth a second look.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:40 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1289
MustBeQuantum wrote:
Ran into a case a year or so ago in California regarding a teenager who was convicted of murder.
The victim, Pam Vitale, was the wife of an attorney, Daniel Horowitz. The husband, Daniel Horowitz, started some kind of foundation against (!) teenage defendants. Totally odd. Ran into his Horowitz's Wikipedia Campaign PR when I was reading all the MOMK garbage.
Daniel Horowitz has been a rather shady TV lawyer for a while. Scott Dyleski was accused and convicted of the murder of Pamela Vitale. How much of that was PR, I do not know, but that is a case worth a second look.
MustBeQuantum, Thanks for the case. I agree this is worth another look.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:11 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1289
In the last few days the Jason Puracal case has been getting some very high profile news coverage! This is excellent news! Congratulations to the FreeJasonP Team !!!!
Please everyone spread these links around. Tweet, Share, etc. Lets get the momentum rolling and help bring even more attention to Jason's case.
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